Towson University 00:00 You're listening to a Towson University podcast. President Mark Ginsberg 00:08 Welcome to On the Mark, where we have candid conversations about meaningful and consequential work happening here at Towson University. I'm Mark Ginsberg. It's my honor to serve as president of Towson University, located, of course, in Towson, Maryland. And on this podcast, we're introducing you to members of our university community who are engaged in high impact teaching, research and student success practices. Joining me today is Dr. Chhayakant Patro, an expert in auditory science whose research focuses on noise exposure, cochlear implants and childhood health and hearing and, and many other issues in the audiology space. We'll be talking about many of these things and others on this conversation. Dr. Patro, who I'm delighted is with me today, is dedicated to improving hearing health and advancing auditory protections. We're fortunate he's taken time to be with us today to discuss these important topics. And I should say too that Dr. Patro is an assistant professor in our Department of Audiology. He joined our faculty of Towson University in the fall of 2021 in our College of Health Professions, in our Department of Speech Language Pathology and Audiology. His doctoral degree is from the University of Memphis, awarded in 2017 after receiving master's and bachelor's degrees in his native home country of India. Having worked at TU for three years, Dr. Patro, it's great to have you with us, Chhayakant. Really look forward to this conversation, and I know that there are many areas that you study and many areas that you research, and perhaps even more importantly, the impact of your research has really practical applications for people around the country with different forms of hearing loss. And I wonder if we could start maybe with one of those areas. And to just ask the general question, you can help us understand otitis media. The first thing is, what is it? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 02:02 Well, otitis media refers to infection of the ear, middle ear in particular. The ear has three parts: outer ear and middle ear and inner ear. Otitis media refers to the infection of the middle ear. Media is middle ear, and otitis is the infection of the ear. So, well, otitis media is prevalent among children. 90% of the children by year, age of five years, they get at least a single episode of otitis media. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 02:34 90%. President Mark Ginsberg 02:34 90%? President Mark Ginsberg 02:36 That's almost all children. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 02:37 All children… President Mark Ginsberg 02:38 All children. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 02:38 Yup, yup. President Mark Ginsberg 02:38 So when a child has an, what we might call as a parent having children myself, an ear infection. What they may be experiencing is otitis media, in effect. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 02:47 Yes, yes. President Mark Ginsberg 02:47 Uh-huh. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 02:48 Yeah, yeah. I mean the younger the kids are, they are more prone to infections, various viral infections, bacterial infections, and that can cause middle ear infections, and that can affect their hearing. Some of the hearing loss caused by otitis media may be temporary. It can resolve as soon as the infection is gone, and some of the hearing loss caused by otitis media may be permanent. President Mark Ginsberg 03:14 What are some of the symptoms that parents might look for if a child has these... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 03:18 Well... President Mark Ginsberg 03:18 ... kinds of issues? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 03:19 Yeah, in the kids, they tend to be more visual. They will ask you to repeat. President Mark Ginsberg 03:27 Uh-huh. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 03:27 They find it difficult to follow the conversations in the classroom. They find it difficult to understand the teacher in the classroom. Overall, the developmental milestones of the speech language development is significantly impaired and delayed. President Mark Ginsberg 03:41 And these are kids where they may have the infection that becomes more chronic. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 03:46 More chronic and recurrent. That is happening. President Mark Ginsberg 03:50 Regular, having a repeated one... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 03:51 Definitley and more severe. President Mark Ginsberg 03:53 You know, a lot of people in the reading area, the folks who study reading oftentimes talk about the importance to learn phonics. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 04:02 Right. President Mark Ginsberg 04:03 And phonics is also based in large part about hearing... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 04:05 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 04:06 Hearing sounds... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 04:07 Yeah. President Mark Ginsberg 04:07 Differentiating sounds. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 04:08 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 04:08 So I'm wondering too, hadn't thought about this until right now, that otitis media may actually have an impact on development of reading as well. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 04:16 Sure, sure, yes. If you know overall cognitive development, reading skills and speech language development in general, they cannot hear the sounds properly. So they will not learn to differentiate between sounds. President Mark Ginsberg 04:33 Yeah. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 04:33 So that takes longer for them to acquire new sounds and understand new sounds and so on. President Mark Ginsberg 04:39 And my understanding is there are different types of hearing loss in children. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 04:44 Right. President Mark Ginsberg 04:44 Talk a little bit about the different kinds of hearing losses that that children might experience Dr. Chhayakant Patro 04:49 Sure, well, the hearing loss cause-- may be caused by different all different kinds of issues, but broadly speaking, there are three different hearing loss categories, conductive hearing loss... President Mark Ginsberg 05:03 Yes. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:03 Sensorineural hearing loss... President Mark Ginsberg 05:04 Yes. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:04 And mixed hearing loss. President Mark Ginsberg 05:06 Okay. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:06 So conductive hearing loss is caused by otitis media, middle ear infections, any other disease or the condition affecting outer ear or the middle ear. Sensorineural hearing loss is permanent. It is not reversible. President Mark Ginsberg 05:21 Not reversible? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:22 It's not reversible. President Mark Ginsberg 05:24 I see. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:24 Yeah, in those cases, they have to use hearing aids or cochlear implants. And mixed hearing loss is the combination of both. They have an outer ear or middle ear pathology, and on top of that, they have a permanent sensorineural hearing loss. President Mark Ginsberg 05:38 And what's the what are the prevalence of of of these kinds of disorders in children? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:43 I would say about 1%. President Mark Ginsberg 05:45 About 1%? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:46 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 05:46 Yeah, so most children, I would guess, would experience otitis media at some point during their childhood. Most children... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:53 Otitis media is very... President Mark Ginsberg 05:54 It's very common. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:55 Very common. President Mark Ginsberg 05:56 Yeah. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 05:56 That doesn't necessarily cause a permanent hearing loss. President Mark Ginsberg 05:59 Right, but most children will have some kind of hearing or ear infection over time. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:03 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 06:04 But maybe 1% of children would develop something that's more significant and permanent. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:08 They need to go to see an audiologist and use hearing aids and so on. President Mark Ginsberg 06:11 So that's a pretty large number when you think about one out of 100. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:14 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 06:15 So let's take the case of a child who has been identified as having hearing loss sensor, sensory cure... How did you call it? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:15 Sensorineural. President Mark Ginsberg 06:16 Sensorineural hearing loss. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:25 Right. President Mark Ginsberg 06:27 Which is potentially more permanent and even more significant than a temporary loss. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:31 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 06:31 What are some of the interventions and treatments that that are used to assist these children? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:36 Well, it depends on the degree of hearing loss. President Mark Ginsberg 06:38 Right. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:38 Right. President Mark Ginsberg 06:39 Makes sense. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:40 If the hearing loss is mild to moderate or moderately severe... President Mark Ginsberg 06:43 Yeah. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 06:43 Then typically they go for hearing aids. So hearing aids will amplify the sounds and it will kind of compensate for the hearing loss, and they will be able to hear appropriately. However, if the hearing loss is more severe or profound, they have to go for cochlear implants, and we'll talk about cochlear implants in detail, but they are surgical devices that are meant for restoring a sense of hearing. President Mark Ginsberg 07:11 Well, that's what I was going to ask you. You're an audiologist, and we have a magnificent training program here at Towson University. Training audiologists at multiple levels, at the graduate level. When is it that a person should actually seek the consultation of a professional in the field, a person like yourself? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 07:26 Sure, sure. Well, the first sign is that you do all right when you try to communicate in quiet listening environments. President Mark Ginsberg 07:36 Yes. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 07:36 When you go to a crowded restaurant and are trying to understand speech in noisy backgrounds, and that's when you start to struggle to understand speech. Those are one of the earliest signs that you should see an audiologist in order to understand whether there is something wrong with the hearing. President Mark Ginsberg 07:52 Yeah. Well, let's talk about cochlear implants, because that's those are, it seems to me, not just reserved for, but specifically are helpful for those whose hearing loss is quite profound. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 08:03 Yeah, cochlear implants are meant for individuals who have severe to profound hearing loss. They are surgically placed inside the inner ear. The surgery now is getting more and more sophisticated. Individuals with severe to profound hearing loss are getting a lot of benefit from cochlear implants, but it is not at a stage where we can tell that, you know, we can restore normal hearing. They continue to struggle to understand music. Perception of music is still... President Mark Ginsberg 08:36 People with the implants. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 08:38 People... President Mark Ginsberg 08:38 ...still Dr. Chhayakant Patro 08:38 With the implants. President Mark Ginsberg 08:39 Yeah. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 08:39 Yeah. Music has not been a priority for the developers of cochlear implant. President Mark Ginsberg 08:45 Yeah, it's an important question, yeah. President Mark Ginsberg 08:45 Interesting. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 08:45 They wanted to, you know, if the priority was in order to restore verbal mode of communication, speech understanding and so on. So music perception continues to remain a challenge, speech understanding and background noise continues to remain a challenge, and my dissertation focused on addressing this individual variability. A lot of individuals with cochlear implants do extremely well. Their speech understanding scores are close to 100% a lot of individuals who are in the... suffer from the floor effect. Their scores are close to 0%. Just imagine the device is the same, the surgeon implanting the implant is the same, clinician programming the device is the same, but one patient is not getting a lot of benefit from cochlear implant, and the other person is not getting any benefit. So in those cases, what are the factors that are contributing to this individual variability? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 08:51 And I, that's, is very interested in these kind of questions. So trying to identify those issues remains the focus of my research. President Mark Ginsberg 09:55 Great. As I was trying to do a little bit of research on cochlear implants, I found a couple of articles of people who had them who had some comments. One person wrote, I'm quoting this person, "getting a cochlear implant was the best decision I ever made. It gave me access to a world of sound I never knew existed." Opened up a whole new door. Opened up a door to a world they hadn't known. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 10:23 Yes, so yeah, our conversational level is around 60 to 70 decibels, and they have severe to profound hearing loss. Means their hearing sensitivity is around 90 to 100 decibels of hearing loss, so they will not be able to follow conversation, you have to shout in order for them to hear. President Mark Ginsberg 10:43 Right. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 10:44 So using cochlear implants for them is basically restoring a sense of hearing. President Mark Ginsberg 10:49 Yeah. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 10:49 They have not heard the sounds for a long time. President Mark Ginsberg 10:53 I can imagine when somebody first hears sound, too, the revelation that that must be the sense of joy, really the sense of difference must be truly remarkable. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 11:03 Yeah, that was one of the reasons why I got interested in this area. President Mark Ginsberg 11:08 Uh huh. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 11:09 I was watching YouTube videos, and there are so many YouTube videos on getting the experience of sound for the first time President Mark Ginsberg 11:19 Yeah. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 11:20 And they start smiling as soon as you activate the implant. President Mark Ginsberg 11:23 Yeah, I was going to ask you how it is that you became so interested and decided to devote your career and your life to this work. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 11:29 Yeah, those expressions are priceless, and I wanted to do something in that that area, in order to improve the performance in individuals with cochlear implants, you know. President Mark Ginsberg 11:39 Cochlear implants also have some controversy ass I understand it. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 11:43 Well, as I mentioned, it requires a lot of refinement. The signal transduced through cochlear implant is, requires, you know, it's not that clear yet. There is a lot of research going on to improve the signal processing, improve the surgical approach in order to improve speech understanding. President Mark Ginsberg 12:06 Yeah, a Deaf educator wrote in an article too that a cochlear implant is not a cure, it's a choice. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 12:13 Yeah. President Mark Ginsberg 12:13 And that choice should be made with a full understanding of of Deaf culture and Deaf identity. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 12:18 Right. President Mark Ginsberg 12:19 And so I also understood that there, there's not a one size fits all perspective on a cochlear implant, so that... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 12:26 Right, right. President Mark Ginsberg 12:26 Some in the Deaf community feels it might be taking away from the culture and the sense of self and identity that deaf... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 12:34 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 12:34 People with deafness may have. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 12:36 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 12:36 How does that fit in all this? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 12:38 Well, I tell... President Mark Ginsberg 12:38 That's a piece of the puzzle. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 12:40 Yeah, I tell all my patients that, you know, the candidacy of cochlear implant is, should be driven by the patient himself or herself. First of all, you should be able to take care of the device, and you should be able to use the device. And the choice is, after all, yours. If you are willing to add up the verbal mode of communication, and you want to communicate and understand speech, then you should be choosing cochlear implants. If you want to go another route, that is sign language, then you don't have to go for cochlear implant. President Mark Ginsberg 13:18 So as an audiologist, you're not making a value judgment. You're providing patients with options that provide different opportunities as a health professional. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 13:27 Yes, yes. President Mark Ginsberg 13:28 Yeah, yeah. Let's talk a little bit-- we're talking a lot about hearing loss in children, but let's talk a little bit about adults. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 13:35 Sure. President Mark Ginsberg 13:35 Adolescents and adults. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 13:37 Sure. President Mark Ginsberg 13:37 One of my colleagues, having been for many, many many years of my career at Johns Hopkins, one of my colleagues there once wrote that hearing loss is not just a problem of the ears, but a problem of the brain. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 13:47 Yeah. President Mark Ginsberg 13:47 And the brain doesn't age as gracefully as the rest of the body. Soit suggested to me that hearing loss is a developmental if you will... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 13:56 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 13:56 ...and as we age, many people do experience hearing loss. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 13:59 Yes, yes. Well, I'm sure it came from Johns Hopkins. They are running a huge clinical trial on age related hearing loss. The entire auditory system degenerates as we get older, and the neurons in the brain also degenerate with aging. So the ear is responsible for sending the sound to the brain. The brain has to ultimately interpret the sound it is receiving from the ear. So in order for you to understand speech, you have to understand what the spoken message is. That's why, you know, the ear and the brain work together to accomplish speech understanding. President Mark Ginsberg 14:38 One of the people at the NICH-- NIDCD, the National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders, had mentioned that hearing loss is often seen as a normal part of aging, but it can have a significant impact on quality of life, and that person, a professional audiologist like yourself, said it's important to address it, rather than to ignore it. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 14:59 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 15:00 How, if people are experiencing, adults and most people, as we say, it's a normal part of aging, probably most people will experience some decline in their ability to hear. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 15:10 Yeah. President Mark Ginsberg 15:11 What's the best way to go about addressing them? How can they access services from a person like yourself? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 15:16 Early identification. You know, as soon as, as I mentioned, you are struggling to understand speech and background nois, you are asking people to repeat themselves, you are turning the volume of the TV to be louder. That's when you should consult an audiologist, and hearing loss is the only modifiable aspect of aging you cannot control the degeneration of the brain, but by providing amplification, you are ensuring... President Mark Ginsberg 15:46 Good way to define it. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 15:47 ... that the brain is getting appropriate input from the ear. So there are studies that have suggested that hearing hearing aids can de-accelerate the rate of change in the cognitive mechanism. President Mark Ginsberg 16:02 Wow. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 16:02 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 16:03 That's that's really profound. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 16:04 Yeah. President Mark Ginsberg 16:05 So treating hearing loss and for folks who are listening to our podcast today, who are maybe a little bit older, maybe close to my age, then they should not be reticent, or they shouldn't avoid going to try to address this actually could help them in many ways. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 16:24 Yes, yes. President Mark Ginsberg 16:24 And there's some data, I think, to suggest that hearing loss has an impact on quality of life. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 16:28 Quality of life. President Mark Ginsberg 16:29 As you're beginning to suggest. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 16:30 Yes, yes, overall quality of life. And there was a study suggested that it can reduce the chances of getting cognitive decline. And you can, as I mentioned, you can slow down the process of cognitive decline. President Mark Ginsberg 16:44 Some, I think, have suggested, too, that with hearing loss, it's easy to become socially isolated. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 16:49 Yeah. President Mark Ginsberg 16:50 To not, to not engage as much with people, because it's more difficult to do so I suppose. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 16:54 Yes, yes. You know, a lot of older adults would like to avoid social situations because, well, I would like to avoid that situation where I don't understand anyone speaking. In those cases, using hearing aids can be of a lot of help. President Mark Ginsberg 17:10 Yeah, and you know, I'm a psychologist by training, you're an audiologist. But I think in my domain, it's not uncommon for people who experience hearing loss to to actually experience some bouts of depression or anxiety or difficulties. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 17:23 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 17:23 As a result of difficulties, communicating without making a value judgment. But.. President Mark Ginsberg 17:27 ... but then that impact on relationships... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 17:27 True. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 17:31 Right, right. President Mark Ginsberg 17:31 The impact on relationships... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 17:32 Yes, yes, as I mentioned, if they are not getting appropriate input through the ear, you know, there is a lot of structural and functional changes... President Mark Ginsberg 17:43 Right. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 17:43 The brain... President Mark Ginsberg 17:44 Right. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 17:44 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 17:45 And then you would suggest, I would think, as an audiologist, that for people who might be experiencing or feeling in their own behavior or their own experiences, that hearing loss is part of what is happening for them, to to not be at all reticent to contact an audiologist and to to be assessed and to be--have-- be able to consider what the alternatives for treatment might be. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 18:07 Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, they should consult the audiologist as soon as possible. And if, if they feel that they have a hearing loss, definitely they have a hearing loss. President Mark Ginsberg 18:17 And we have here at Towson University, for those who are here in our region. We have a clinic. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 18:22 We have a clinic. President Mark Ginsberg 18:22 On campus. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 18:23 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 18:23 We have a doctoral program. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 18:24 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 18:24 We have both fully credentialed professionals and professionals in training. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 18:28 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 18:28 Who are here to do those kinds of assessments. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 18:31 Yes, we have highly skilled supervisors, world renowned researchers in our department, and we are here to help. President Mark Ginsberg 18:40 Yeah, and there's a tremendous program. And for those people who want to do that, they can contact the department. You may tell them how to do that. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 18:46 Sure, sure. They can contact the Hearing and Balance Center at Towson University. President Mark Ginsberg 18:52 The Hearing and Balance Center here at Towson University. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 18:54 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 18:55 Great. Let's talk about one more subject. We have a couple of minutes left, and I'm curious about psychoacoustics. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 19:00 Sure. President Mark Ginsberg 19:00 Another area you study so many interesting areas, from hearing loss in children to the impact of cochlear implants, the decline in hearing and aging. But one of the things that I found really fascinating is is psychoacoustics. What is psychoacoustics? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 19:14 Well, understanding perception and processing of various aspect of sounds, such as overall temporal variations in the sound, the overall loudness changes in the sound, various changes in the spectral composition of the sound. So these are like the basic aspects of auditory processin. President Mark Ginsberg 19:37 And for those who are familiar with psycho... just the general concept we know too that there's this decline that that loud noise, I guess, is that part of psychoacoustics loud, loud noise as an impact. Is that, right? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 19:52 Well, psychoacoustics is a very broad... President Mark Ginsberg 19:54 It's a very broad area. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 19:55 ... area but, yeah, indeed, exposure to loud noise for a long time can impair the psychoacoustical abilities. President Mark Ginsberg 20:07 So talk a little bit about this. This is an area that I just find fascinating because there're so many people in our society who are exposed to noise. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 20:16 Right. President Mark Ginsberg 20:16 Whether you're at an Orioles game and you're hearing the loud crowd... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 20:19 Right. President Mark Ginsberg 20:20 ... or whether you're in a music venue and the sound is at a high level. What's the impact of all of that, both in the immediate sense, but also over time? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 20:30 Sure, sure. So there are two dimensions to noise-induced, hearing loss, how loud the sounds are, and how long you are spending in that loud environment. So louder the sounds are, you can afford to spend shorter amount of time without getting a hearing loss, so about 90 dB. You can afford to spend eight hours. President Mark Ginsberg 20:57 Eight hours? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 20:58 Eight hours. President Mark Ginsberg 20:59 at 90, 90 decibels? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 21:01 90 decibels, yeah, yeah. President Mark Ginsberg 21:02 How loud? Just to give you a sense of, give us a sense of what, how loud is 90 dB. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 21:07 Let me put it this way. A lot of individuals who listen to music through their headphones, they listen to music at 90 dB. President Mark Ginsberg 21:16 No, so, that would be a kind of a normal, yet still... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 21:19 Prefer loudness. President Mark Ginsberg 21:19 Pretty loud level. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 21:20 For listening to music is around 90 dB, so don't listen to music at louder volumes. So yeah, getting noise induced hearing loss, as I mentioned in the beginning, is one of the prevalent causes of permanent hearing loss. President Mark Ginsberg 21:36 So one of the areas I know that you study is musicians. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 21:40 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 21:40 And we all love music. Music is such a... Dr. Chhayakant Patro 21:43 Yes, President Mark Ginsberg 21:44 ... wonderful thing for all of us. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 21:46 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 21:47 But music musicians might be at a certain risk. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 21:50 Yes, yes. Well, musicians, you know, noise induced hearing loss is prevalent among a lot of professions. Certain frequencies are more damaging than the others, but mostly, I would say, the level of the noise and the duration of the noise that decides whether or not you are going to get hearing loss, right, yeah. But mostly, low frequency sounds are more damaging, such as the drums and so on... President Mark Ginsberg 22:22 Ah. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 22:23 ... than, say, a flute, right? Then they're less damaging to hearing. President Mark Ginsberg 22:28 Flute would be less damaging than a bass drum, for example. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 22:31 Yes, yes. President Mark Ginsberg 22:32 Yeah. What about some of the other professions that might be most at risk for for these kinds of hearing related impairments? Dr. Chhayakant Patro 22:39 Industry workers. President Mark Ginsberg 22:40 Industry workers? President Mark Ginsberg 22:41 In factories that are very noisy. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 22:41 Yes. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 22:42 Factories that are very noisy, and they have guidelines. They have regulations that protects them. They are not allowed to spend a certain amount of time in the factories, and they use ear protection devices. But unfortunately, musicians are not aware of the risk of hearing loss. President Mark Ginsberg 23:03 Well, Chhayakant we've talked about many things, and it's been really a wide ranging and fascinating conversation. You're almost making me want to become an audiologist to think about-- because the work that you do, it seems to me, really does have such a profound impact on the life experience that people have. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 23:20 Yes. President Mark Ginsberg 23:21 Hearing is so important to our life experience. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 23:23 Absolutely. President Mark Ginsberg 23:23 But also those who are unable to hear or have hearing loss, you're giving me great optimism that there are ways to go about helping people to develop the opportunity to to hear. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 23:34 Yes. Yes, that's correct. Yeah. Excited to be in this profession, and my goal is to help individuals who have hearing loss and improve their quality of life. President Mark Ginsberg 23:42 Well, Chhayakant Patro, Assistant Professor of Audiology here at Towson University. Dr. Patro, thank you so much for being with me on On the Mark. It's been a fascinating conversation, and I know the people listening will will enjoy it and learn and have an opportunity to have a greater understanding about what hearing loss is, as well as some of the many really important topics that you're researching. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 24:04 Well, thank you so much for having me. President Mark Ginsberg 24:05 And thank you for listening to On the Mark a podcast here at Towson University. This is Mark Ginsberg, president of Towson University, saying thank you for joining me. Dr. Patro, thank you for being with me. And thank you for joining me those who are listening. Dr. Chhayakant Patro 24:18 Thank you. Thanks for having me. President Mark Ginsberg Outro 24:21 Thank you for listening to On the Mark. If you liked what you've heard, please give us a follow or leave a review. It helps to ensure that we can keep bringing you more candid conversations about the consequential work of higher education. If you have feedback about our podcast, I'd welcome hearing from you. Please feel free to send me a message at onthemark@towson.edu. Towson University Outro 24:44 Founded in 1866 Towson University is a top ranked, comprehensive public research university, recognized as Maryland's number one public institution by The Wall Street Journal. As greater Baltimore's largest university, TU proudly serves as an engine of opportunity for nearly 20,000 students the state of Maryland and beyond. Explore more than 190 top ranked undergraduate and graduate degree programs, and make our momentum yours at towson.edu.